Screaming Penguin

'trox, While I certainly agree with your sentiment, I am afraid that the general populace doesn't. And won't ever, no matter what reasonable arguments you present. Obviously, if you set up your web-app to accept information that is only validated on the client-side, then you should oh so very much reap what you sow. Gonna get burned, it's just a matter of time. However, people don't wanna wait for a resubmittal to be told that their phone number is not valid. People want a flashy site that does nifty little things when you move your mouse around. The want all of the glitz and they want to forget that they are on the web. No matter what the general populace says, they don't want to work on the web. They want all of the information on the web available on their desktop, as accessible as their "My Documents" folder is. And they want all the whizbang features that go into desktop apps. Since that's what the beast wants, thats what the majority of web sites and internet apps give'em. You want fancy-schmancy text in email? Well, instead of inventing something new, we'll just cram in our fancy-schmancy HTML interpreter that is already jammed full of nifty little schmancies. Oh did we mention that the HTML that we use is our own version, and the schmancy-driver, or scripting language, is proprietary too. Oh yeah, and its based on our legendarily safe and secure OS hooks. The general population makes it to easy for this type of behavior to be acceptable. Again, I am fully behind your rants, but I fear that we are shouting into the fury of the storm. (OK that doesn't sound right, but I can't remember what we are shouting into) Sigh..... -jeepmutt

I wanna preface this with the note that I am a little cranky right now. :p Yep, I agree that that is what people/corps [b]should[/b] do, but my point was that, in general, the customers let them get away with the bullshit cause they don't know any better, (or don't care, sometimes, I can't tell which.) Maybe, I am just down on the situation in general, but from what I have seen, corps aren't interested in doing things [b]R[/b]ight. They want it done now. I know that if I had to get a site up right this minute the way that they wanted it done, my only solution would be to use JavaScript. I personally am not familiar enough with CSS to get the job done, and I am willing to be that my employer doesn't want me to learn to get it right, they want it done. They're too busy promising the moon in 3 easy steps to be worried about the fact that I need to take the time to train to get it done. [b]Boss:[/b] Do you know how to make the little buttons light up when I get put my little pointer-thingy over them. [b]Me:[/b] Yeah, but I'd be using less-than-optimal techniques. I know that there is a way to do it, but I will have to look into it. [b]Boss:[/b] You must not be a very good programmer if you don't know how to make the little buttons light up. [b]Me:[/b] That's not what I said, I know a way to get it done, it just isn't correct. [b]Boss:[/b] Why didn't you say so? Do it. [b]Me:[/b] But... [b]Boss:[/b] Good work. Anyway, not saying to not fight the good fight, it's just sometimes I get tired... I know that it's not a good reason to quit, and, in truth, I won't, but I will bitch and moan a bit before getting on with it. Oh, one more thing, yer last little bit about so-called web-developers not knowing their ass from a hole in the ground, (slight paraphrase on my part, kill me.) So very true. The above little dialog could have just as well included something rare and precious like some jackass 'web-developer' who says that it can be done with JavaScript and some ActiveX controls on the page. Jackasses. All of'em. A bunch of jackasses. What do we do about them? -mutt