Microsoft playing more games with Java, adds it BACK to XP (kinda)

Submitted by charlie.collins on Tue, 06/18/2002 - 13:43

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Windows

In an attempt to solve a legal problem caused by a March Sun lawsuit, Microsoft has decided to put a JVM back into Windows XP. XP service pack 1 will have a JVM. However, and this is a big one, Microsoft has decided to try to obfuscate and infuriate things further by using their OWN JVM. This would not be so bad if it were a modern JVM but it isnt. Microsoft JVM is based on 1.1.4 and was released in 97. WAY BEHIND, WAY CRAPPY and probably has some extra crappiness built in (as if it were needed) just to make deface Java further. This is a clear attempt by Microsoft to skirt the line of what they are legally bound to do. They are not yet committed to doing what is RIGHT, but will comply with the weakest interpretation of previous rulings against them (the download a JVM approach that they originally took with XP violates earlier anti-trust agreements, according to Sun.) Also, this is a TEMPORARY move, Microsoft is still announcing that as far as the future is concerned Java will be out. For more info see the linked news.com story. Microsoft to reinstate Java in Windows: news.com

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Re: Microsoft playing more games with Java, adds it BACK to XP

Submitted by jeepmutt (not verified) on Tue, 06/18/2002 - 14:15.

Although the 1.1.4 JVM is in fact WAY old, it was/is still helluva lot better than sun's JVM at the equivalent stage. I only know this because I am forced to deal with it everyday thanks to some 'interesting' business/design decisions made three years ago.

Re: Microsoft playing more games with Java, adds it BACK to XP

Submitted by atrox (not verified) on Tue, 06/18/2002 - 14:28.

hahahaha, great insight, thanks. also, very tactful use of "interesting", I will try to recall that tact and use it in my own experiences.

Re: Microsoft playing more games with Java, adds it BACK to XP

Submitted by BSDBuck (not verified) on Wed, 06/19/2002 - 13:45.

Here's where I'm confused. Can Microsoft legally distribute a JVM, other than it's own, vis a vis the settlement of the Java licensing violation lawsuit from last year? If not, does Sun really have a right to bitch? Believe me, I'm no Microsoft or Sun fanboy, but I believe if it's all you can do, from a legal standpoint, it's all you can do.

Re: Microsoft playing more games with Java, adds it BACK to XP

Submitted by jeepmutt (not verified) on Wed, 06/19/2002 - 21:44.

You're right. MS has no choice but to deliver 1.1.4 with no more changes due to the Sun lawsuit. Sun is really screwing themselves on this one. What they really want is for MS to deliver Sun's VM. Of course MS isn't going to do that. So Sun keeps sueing them for stuff, but now they've chased their tails full circle. MS is literally doing all that they can according to the multitude of lawsuits that Sun has filed. IANAL, of course, but the whole Sun v. Microsoft is just a load of @!#$. Look at if from a Linux distribution point of view. Can Sun sue Red Hat for not including Sun's VM? Of course not. Consider the Windows OS as a distribution, and you can easily see the absurdity of this one.

Re: Microsoft playing more games with Java, adds it BACK to XP

Submitted by atrox (not verified) on Thu, 06/20/2002 - 09:06.

I did not realize that they were not allowed to include the Sun VM? Are you guys positive about that? If so then the move is not as underhanded as I thought. As for the entire issue of Sun V Microsoft. I dont think that ANY of the legal action against Microsoft is worth while. I dont really LIKE what they do by any means, but I dont think we should be in court (DOJ or Sun) bitching about it. I think Sun should market better than MS to win and or consumers should make the choices to choose who wins. Microsoft has marketed their product better than Sun, far better. Sun has an i386 flavor of Solaris, but regular every day users desktops is not their thing. All that said I do think that Microsoft sucks for a lot of the things they do. I think they could be just as succesful (or more so) without crushing every small company, without keeping Java out in the first place, etc, etc, etc. With the kabajillions they make did they really need to @!#$ with Java to begin with? If they had been putting in the latest Sun VM all along this would not be an issue. The embrace and eradicate track is I believe what Sun originally feared.