Screaming Penguin - Source Does Matter

Uh, correction. It was the House that was holding out, not the Senate. Ah crap. We lost.

damn man, made me think several times and laugh a few times, truly (not sarcastic) great post.

i agree about the spending of the poor people and the government and i love the cruise missle and crack cracks.

while i know poor people will spend it i still dont understand how we justify the "credit" (semantics or not, its paying OUT money to people) and i really hate it when we decide to mail out checks in midstream rather than just change next years tax returns (and i qualify for the credits, i am not bitching cause i wont get any, i am bitching cause its a huge waste of money and political stunt)

I like buying cruise missles. I also like buying crack. Now I'm in a pickle as to how I should spend my tax credit...

Actually, the total cost of the Iraq war is now put at $220 per American. Not so shabby - I would have donated that amount voluntarily just to see the murdering bastard out of there. [url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-06-12-war-costs_x.htm]USA Today Story[/url]

Oh, no, I KNOW you didn't go there! OK, its on, boy...

1. Unilateral: Obligating only one of two or more parties, nations, or persons, as a contract or an agreement.

Dude - we had Britain and quite a few others on our side! It wasn't unilateral, it just wasn't with the approval of that namby-pamby UN organization.

2. Yeah, I know, I was joking. It will cost a lot more than $220 per person when all is said and done. However, just think of the savings you will realize at the gas pump. Just joking! Actually, though, the oil pumped from Iraq is supposed to help offset the rebuilding and costs associated. We'll see. Bush is a big-spending government guy, just like a democrat, so it will get more expensive.

3. WMD's - yeah, we haven't found them. This doesn't worry me because I think we were lied to. Fact is, EVERYBODY, even the UN, agrees that Iraq had them, and nobody seems to no where they went. What worries me is that last part - where in the hell did all fo these WMD's go to if they are no longer in Iraq??????

4.Yes, the UN guys were saying 'Just wait, we need more time', but they were also being bamboozled by an Iraqi regime who was playing the shell game with them. Well, now our inspectors can pretty much go anywhere they want unimpeded.

5. Why is it always 'No WMD's have been found, this war sucked!' Personally, all of the evidence of the mass graves makes me think we did the damn right thing, regardless of what the initial reasoning was. They've found mass graves with the skeletons of babies still tied to their mothers and of children holding dolls! How in the hell can we not justify our actions after hearing about all of these atrocities?

6. Nothing that all of the war naysayers said about the consequences of the war have come true. 'Huge civilian casualties. Major unrest in the mid-east. All of the oil fields set ablaze. Warring islamic factions. etc etc.' So now that it seems like the war was a good thing, all of these naysayers, instead of saying 'mea culpa' are looking for anything to point to rather than seeing all the good that has been accomplished.

ok, one more bite

1. unilateral, multilateral my ass, britian and spain who were "allies" that did nothing except mop up and had zero support of the people at home and participated at all because of enourmous financial pressure to do so, dont count as multilateral. maybe bilateral with britain, MAYBE, but the rest were just puppets.

2. "Bush is a big spending guy" . . . "just like a democrat", well, I like the fiscal policies of the Republicans in general better than the fiscal policies of the Democrats, yet I like the social tolerance and basic understanding of humanity (non christian white) the Democrats have much better than the Republicans. Even so, you are right, I cant believe the governmental fiscal policies under while the supposed smaller government party controls the congress and the white house. Maybe calling Democrats the big spenders isnt quite fair anymore?

3. WMDs - yeah I think he had them TOO. but as I said BEFORE THIS DAMN THING STARTED I think inspectors and the UN process will find more than going in and blowing **** up and taking over. I hope we DO FIND them to help the world get over this issue once and for all, and to account for them (as you said, where the hell are they?). However, the first gulf war had some of the same premises (not all) and even then the inspectors uncovered and destroyed more weapons than the military. My point here was not that he doesnt and didnt have WMDs, but that it WILL TAKE TIME to find them, inspectors would have done a better job because they would have been more "contained" (rather than shipped to Syria) AND that the urgency that the President said was the reason we had to attack when we did was bullshit. Now he is saying it will take time, well my friend, agreed, and again, thats what the inspectors said beforehand.

4. agreed Iraq was playing games, but so what? they were still contained within their own country, no fly zones, sanctions, etc. we should have allowed the inspectors and the UN to put the pressure on, at our behest fine, but going outside the UN and attacking anyway was flat out stupid and hasnt accomplished anything. also we put the cost at 220 per american taxpayer, does that include all the lives lost, have we put a price on all the US military and Iraqi true civilians that have died? Are they in the "price" equation somewhere. To me this whole has just been a huge debacle, its not worth 1 life much less thousands to have a less safe world overall and the UN trying to occupy iraq under the guise of liberation. dont get me wrong again, I think the US WANT to liberate Iraq, but if they wont quit fighting what they see as an occupying force (justifiably so IMHO) then we have to fight back and we are just perpetuating the "occupying force" crap.

5. combo of three and four, and again i think they DID/DO have WMDs and i hope we find them (frankly, with the questionable evidence that was provided pre war at the UN I am surprised the US hasnt planted something by now, I give the US government great credit for having NOT found anything yet while being under such enourmous pressure to do so, if this was the LAPD in South Central, do you think they would not have found any crack by now?)

6. "So now that it seems like the war was a good thing" dude, i am one of the "naysayers" and i think we have destroyed foreign relations with virtually every arab nation. and with most of europe. i think the war "seems" like a terrible mistake, it was a speciously justified invasion of a foreign nation and we in the us like to spout freedom, liberty, soverignty, etc. i realize that many cowboys dont give a crap about any other countries, but it does matter in an age of globalization. these nations may elect either not to say anything or to mumble their discontent in the face of relations with the US being so important to them, but their is a lot of ill will around the world because of this crap and it will matter, it wont just go away, it was earned. also no mass casualties, what? there have been many civilian causualties, also what about the crap now, no power, no food, no jobs, one hell of a liberation and the mess has just begun. good thing my ass.

and to top it all off "seeing all the good that has been accomplished" WTF? please explain what "good" has been done. sure saddam aint there, but we havent found him? now we have to run that country at great expense, the people of that country hate us and dont have food, electricity, security, water, jobs, etc. and we have been so arrogant and unjustified that we have certainly created generations of new america haters. more terrorism and more ill will will result. overall i think the world is FAR LESS SAFE (as Amnesty Internation stated in a fairly comprehensive world wide report recently) "all the good" my ass. what the hell was the goal anyway? what has been accomplished please enlighten me.

Yeah, you're right. I guess the endings of all of the brutal torture, mass murders, and genocide isn't that big a deal. My bad. ;-)