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Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Al Franken "bodyslammed" and or "tackled" a Lyndon Larouche protestor at a Dean rally. Thats incredible, he is out of control! Oh really? He was involved in subduing a protestor and it involved physical force, but it wasnt quite as horrible as conservatives are painting it (according to reports by those people that actually witnessed it).
The "conservative" folks are saying Franken basically went mad and tackled the protestor. Then they go on to paint him as violent through flat out lies and call him a a "wild man". While I am not sure about this incident, as I did not witness it (neither did the authors of these other articles?), I am sure that other statements being made today by these people with a certain agenda about Franken are lies. (Specifically he was not removed by security at Fox News after a verbal altercation with Sean Hannity NOR did he "verbally berate" Alan Colmes at the Correspondents Dinner as the above linked "NewsMax" article states. In the Hannity incident Hannity accosted Franken, Franken got the better verbally (imagine that), and then Franken left on his own accord with Colmes. Not with security, although Hannity later lied and told his listeners to his radio program that "security" had to be called and they threw Franken out. In the Correspondents Dinner incident Franken did go over to talk to Colmes and he was berated by various "Fox" personnel. He was then confronted by Brian Kilmeade who stepped right into his face and Franken did not back down. These accounts which paint Franken quite a bit differently than "vicious" and "wild" are taken from Franken and Colmes themselves and are in Frankens book Lies.)
Details are still sketchy about the current "incident" but apparently the protestor was not allowing the speakers to be heard at all. And apparently other people were trying to remove the protestor physically but the protestor was fighting and they were unable to move him. Granted it is a bit strange to have to physically restrain/remove someone at a political rally, but it seems that the person was not exactly simply protesting but rather trying to disrupt the event altogether. Then Franken got involved and helped. According to Tim Russert who witnessed it "Franken jumped out of the media gallery ran down and grabbed this guy on the leg and started wrestling him to the ground". He also apparently held the protestor until Police arrived (and it is not yet clear whether or not the protestor was arrested, Franken was NOT arrested).
For more see the linked NY Post article. AL FRANKEN KNOCKS DOWN DEAN HECKLER: NyPost
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Comments
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Yeah, I always got a chuckle out of hearing Sean Hannity or any other 'pundit' discussing things like this. The exaggeration is unbelievable. For instance, Hannity talking about how Dean yelled at a poor old man before the Iowa caucuses - or even Dean's yell afterwards. I am not a fan of Dean (the dude has issues), but he wasn't yelling vicously at the old fella, he was just saying hey buddy, you've had your say, now sit down and let me say mine. And the yell - hell, he's an emotional guy and it was a hard fought battle. Granted, maybe a presidential contender needs a little more control, but everyone blew it out of proportion. Kind of like the libs and the Bush lie Bush lied Bush lied stuff (let's not go into that, though).
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Well, I agree with the Dean stuff, I think he sounded a bit whack when he screamed (and I am not a Dean supporter personally, I dont know much about him one way or another) but he was just trying to respond to the crowd and rally if you watch it, and his voice cracked (as will happen when on the campaign trail I suppose).
This Franken thing does seem kind of wierd to me, the fact they plain ole didnt just call security, but still I didnt see it and I know from account of those who did that it wasnt Al beating the hell of some guy for no reason because he is a maniac. (That same site, the one that called Al the wild man, NewsMax, had a headline today that read "in a first, federal judge says its OK to aid terrorists", when in FACT (those pesky damn facts are the problem) the Judge said several provisions concerning aid to terrorists were just to damn vague and violated constitutional amendments (of which the act is not). The judge explicity stated that we should go after terrorists, of course, but do it in a constitutional manner. Spin is fun aint it, judge says its ok to aid terrorists, WTF is next, this world has gone to hell, those damn liberal commies, we need to nueter those piss ant bastards for **** like this, jesus h christ.)
And then on to the Bush lied stuff, maybe not, maybe he just stretched the truth, if you prefer that, or maybe he fabricated a little bit, or maybe he said something untrue, are any of those better? I just dont see how any reasonable person can honestly think that he did NOT lie. Especially in light of recent reports from the DoD and his own man on the job David Kay (not to mention that useless UN, and that Hans Blix who said they hadnt found anything and needed more time, hmmm, again, familiar theme). If you arent seeing that then you might as well say Clinton never lied (after all what is the definition of is?). I didnt like the Clinton bullshit, and the conservatives went apeshit over it because "he lied", how despicable that was (a President lying, imagine that). But I dont like the Bush bullshit even more (even less?) because it was a lie that wasnt just personal, wasnt just affecting him and some silly little sex scandal, it was a series of lies that got the country he was sworn lead into a war? Again, regardless of the merits or demerits of the damn war, we went in because of the imminent threat and we knew the weapons were there and the Yellow Cake and the Tubes and all that BS. In other words, lies. You would think the big Clinton lie-caller-outers would jump all over this, but no, instead they defend the President? Yeah, thats rational, thats non-partisan and fair.
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Uh, yeah, like I said, I wasn't going to get into the Bush lied thing... but hey:
1. Bush never said anything about Iraq being an imminent threat. In fact, in the State of the Union, he said the exact opposite. He said we should act BEFORE they were an imminent threat. Granted, this begs the question on how much before we should act...
2. EVERYONE, including your favorite UN, Clinton, etc said up until a couple of years ago that Saddam had WMD's. This is a fact. So where did they go to??? And if he Saddam got rid of them, why didn't offer up proof so that he could show that he was complying with UN resolution 1441? Hell, even the Frog King Jacques Chirac warned last February about "the probable possession of weapons of mass destruction by an uncontrollable country, Iraq" and declared that the "international community is right . . . in having decided Iraq should be disarmed."
3. David Kay is NOT saying Bush lied or Iraq didn't have WMD's, etc. What he is saying is almost the opposite. Things like Saddam couldn't come clean to the UN because he wasn't or at least he THOUGHT he still had WMD's, that he had all of the necessary material for the programs, had programs that were in direct violation of 1441 and 10 other resolutions, etc. So no, you're right, we didn't find the 'smoking gun', but we found the shell casing, the bullet hole, and heard the gunshot.
4. Yellow cake, yellow cake. I haven't heard any more of it, but there was a report a week or two ago about a shipment of scrap metal on a ship originating in Iraq that tested positive for yellow cake. Not sure if this is still an item or has been disproven, but hey, the Brits STILL support their claim.
5. Did Bush lie? I don't think so. I don't think I would be honest if I said absolutely, positively not. I personally think that a whole bunch of people fucked up - the UN, CIA, other intelligence agencies, Bush, Powell, etc. But the case that you keep giving for 'Bush lied' is not nearly as strong as you think it is.
Now see what you've made me go and do?
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
I think Al Franken is an utter Tool.
I am not surprised by any actions. This man has always been a nut. It really doesnt matter how the incident went down, its just that the incident went down. No matter what happened, as long as there was some physical intervention by Franken, it should not have been handled that way.
Al Franken is thorn in my liberal side.
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Dude, you arent liberal, cope with it.
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
uh, this entire post is bullshit. but i wont bother with dispensing with all of it because you appear unwilling to accept facts anyway, i will therefore just start with the first "point"
-----------------------------------------
"Bush never said anything about Iraq being an imminent threat. In fact, in the State of the Union, he said the exact opposite"
President Bush October 7 2002
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021007-8.html
President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat
Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.
Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists. Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints.
Iraq is "a threat whose outlines are far more clearly defined" than Al Qaeda.
------------------------------
So my friend, sorry but you are full of **** on this one, and I think your claims that he DID NOT Say it are lies. I think you, and any reasonable person, KNOW that he said it, and many in his administration KEPT SAYING IT and that that was the CASE FOR THE INVASION (I can go find a thousand quotes from Rumsfled, Rice, Cheney (who said we knew WHERE the WMD were specifically). Sure we switched it to "liberation of the people of Iraq" AFTER we invaded and didnt find ****, but come on man, saying it was not said beforehand is a LIE.
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Calling me a liar, eh???
From the SOTU, 2003:
'Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.'
Wow, that seems to support exactly what I was f**kin' saying, doesn't it?
And besides, your whole premise rests on the fact that you think Saddam did not have WMD's and that he would have been unwilling to use them on us or his neighbors or anyone else. Well, as the REST of my points, not bullsh*t pointed out, this is not the case. Even friggin France said they had them! He used them, too! David Kay said he either had them, thought he had them, or had the means to make them. You call me a liar, I call you a blind Frenchman!
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Dude, you're liberal. We're sorry.
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Uh, no ****. Read his post, he claims to be liberal but then read the rest of his posts, voted for Bush and so on, he aint.
Try to pay attention.
And I have no shame in being "liberal" if that means thinking rationally and clearly and not buying into "conservative" bullshit.
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
Well I guess I should not be such a jackass as to call my "friends" liars. I apologize and will try to clean up my act.
However CLEARLY bush did say he was a threat (the mushroom cloud quotes before). You or anyone else cant honestly say that the Bush Administration did NOT state that Saddam was a threat.
It is very clear from MANY speeches and documents and such that they painted Saddam as an imminent threat and a "clear and present danger".
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
And one other thing, its YOU who needs to go back and read my posts about before war, I said I thought Saddam DID HAVE THE WEAPONS. Time and time again. (It turns out I also may have been mislead and was wrong, but I did not consider him a threat to the US even with the weapons, there was no means to deliver WMD to US soil and no link to terrorism.)
I also of course did accept Saddam was a bad guy.
I am not going to bother to re-hash everything again here, because obviously you did not accept or understand any of the facts or the resons for the opposition to the war.
So that really wasnt "my premise". Tell you what, let me speak for me, you speak for yourself.
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
The original account in the Union Leader alleges that Peter Ramsey the theater manager originally claimed that Franken reacted to being elbowed by a heckler.
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=32449
"Ramsey said a news photographer later told him Franken reacted to being elbowed by the protester, who knocked his glasses off."
Now the next day I find this rather long account on a Franken related site which you may go read yourselves at....
http://www.alfrankenweb.com/pramsey.html
What I found strange in this account is that Ramsey now claims to have SEEN the elbowing of Franken. That strikes me as rather inconsistent.
Another strange thing - 40 news crews present and not a single one gets the incident on film?
Weirder yet...
Ramsey also claims that Franken was standing on a balcony 5 feet above the floor where the protester was.
Now let me ask a silly question. If Franken is anywhere near normal height - say 5'6" or so and he is standing there just minding his own business when he gets elbowed, doesn't that mean that his eyes would HAVE to be something like 10 feet above the theater floor?
Put your elbow up over your head as high as you can (jump and flail around all you like) and tell me whether you can get it anywhere near 10 feet in the air so you could pop Franken in the glasses.
When I was a young fellow and a pretty good jumper I could get my finger tips on the basketball rim, but my elbows??? No way...
Was this heckler some kind of NBA prospect or what?
Re: Al Franken tackles a Dean heckler: NYPost
interesting, i hadnt heard any of the elbowing stuff. i heard (and read) that franken bolted out of the crowd to help another several dean staffers that were trying to remove the protestor (who was NOT in the normal audience area and had moved towards the stage).
either way its a very wierd situation, unless franken WAS elbowed first (which i dont think he was?) its strange that he/they simply did not call security.