Screaming Penguin - Source Does Matter

Wow, not sure if this is sarcasm or not?

First off I said it was "funny" and not "surprising". Second condoms are proven many times over to be effective for birth control and as a barrier to STD. My last comment about the "bullshit" was a direct statement about the specious nature of the propaganda of late from "abstinence only" programs, supported by the federal government because thats what they need to be doing, that claim just what you said. What you said, and what those abstinence programs claim, are both bullshit.

Its a bigger issue than the "funny" part about buying the wrong size, but suffice to say that people do have sex, even people of younger ages, and "abstinence" only programs are ridiculous because they ignore that. Sure some people may CHOOSE not to, young people, and thats GREAT. Hopefully these people will be educated about the REAL risks of various birth control methods and all the rest that comes with being sexually active. But to spew bullshit to them to scare them into not having sex is inexcusable (especially when the government is paying for it). Teach the truth, let people decide, even kids.

Thanks, thats really all I meant by the entire post, its funny that us guys have to compensate (well at least most of you do ;)).

That site you quote shows some stats but gives no source for the data. I dont dispute that in some studies you may get results like "14% per year of use" but what it is important to understand is that most condom studies are studies of people that use the condom as a method of birth control. NOT that those people use the condom EVERY TIME, not that the condom is applied correctly, not that the condom doesnt break, or is not the wrong size, etc.

More details about the way the studies are done are available at sites like - http://www.avert.org/condoms.htm, which does divulge "This "failure rate" includes cases where the couple did not use a condom every time they had sex, or they did not use the condom correctly. Some studies have included the times the condom was torn accidentally by people using it."

Now using that logic the other methods of birth control such as the pill, IUD, abstinence or whatever are also somewhat less effective. Even if you are "abstinent" most of the time but once in a while you dont do it correctly and you slip your penis in a vagina that could result in a pregnancy ;). That does not indicate a flaw in the method, that indicates a flaw in execution.

Confusion of causation and correlation.

Now dont get me wrong, I aint saying condoms are perfect, I am just saying that they are very effective for birth control and very effective for a barrier to STD and those that say they are not are usually not doing so on an unbiased footing and merely providing information to others, rather they often have some ideological or religious motive and thus are full of shit.

(As I said before if everyone was abstinent because they really made an informed decision then GREAT. Its when people start pushing abstinence "ONLY" that I have issues with it. And I have huge issues with it when its the federal government doing it (not their job either way frankly). The ONLY part is bullshit, tell people about condoms, tell them about other methods AND tell them about abstinence, its not the ONLY thing going and like it or not, regardless of your ideology, in the real world people will have sex, even young people, they are better protected and informed if they know about condoms and how to use them.)

The data is there we just cant see it, I understand.

Guys, both of you, I think "VERY" is subjective so this is pointless. (Although, 1 out of 7, 14% failure means 86% SUCCESS and some might even call that VERY?).

yeah those were the days, Kozmo.com.