The non "moderate" Republicans, the Senate majority leader and the Bush administration are still repeatedly calling for an "up or down vote" when it comes to judicial nominations. They charge that its unfair for the minority to "hijack" the process in such a manner (even after the so called "agreement" Frist keeps puffing his chest and saying the nuclear option is still on the table, if they dont get the ole "up or down" - this of course is a huge lie because he never intended to do it, and the thought alone is entirely contrary to the point of what the Senate is, Frist knows that, he is just throwing bones to the "conservatives").
So up comes the next great dilemma we really need to "debate", stem cell research. (As if any of these conservative "issues" even warrant debate.)
What happens when a new bill to expand stem cell research comes up, 51 Republicans in the House and Senate join in and support it (thanks to some apparent dose of rationale that is not usually found within their party), and it PASSES?
The MINORITY ultra conservatives with the "culture of life" (huge death penalty supporters, but thats different, of course) spouting say they are not worried because they will have the President veto the bill (a minority check and balance, but wait, I thought those were nonsense and we should have "up or down"?) AND THEY HAVE EVEN THREATENED A FILIBUSTER!
So much for up or down.
Fortunately for those of us back here in reality that would like to see invaluable scientific research prevail over religious zealotry and unfounded ideology (the frequent conservative argument that there really isnt much promise in the stem cell research game is also nonsense, per the entire scientific community), several Senators have now claimed that they can pass this thing with enough votes to override a veto. (And the Republican Senators supporting this measure seem a little testy if you will (pun intended) with the President for threatening the veto.) (Wait a minute, you mean there is a means for overriding a veto or even a filibuster if you build enough of a consensus, if you work on compromise and cooperation? You dont just have to shove everything down everyones throat because you happen to be the majority?)
Moreover, why the hell are we even debating stem cell research? Why? Because the President and the conservative repubs want to look like they have done something and throw more bones to the ultra conservatives, not because it makes any damn sense at all.
We should not do research on stem cells taken from IV fertilization labs when they are unused? The repubs and the President actually have kids that were conceived via IVF on their little ads and with them at their press briefings? The President at a photo opp yesterday went on with the huge campaign of bullshit - with the little kids by his side - "the children here today remind us that there is no such thing as a spare embryo".
The facts simply are that people that try to conceive go to efforts to create multiple embryos and then USE THE BEST ONE. The rest are discarded (eventually). Its just plain nonsense to claim that due to a "culture of life" we should not use these embryos for research and rather should wait for them to be adopted (the President steps all over himself when he tries to explain the death penalty as helping others at the expense of one and then tries to defend NOT doing stem cell research because we should not do anything to hurt one person for the good of others - WTF?). Its also disingenuous to suggest that the "kids" at the photo opp would not be around if the research were to happen. Its just all total bullshit, thanks Mr. Prez.
There are not people waiting to "adopt" an embryo (it has happened but it is extremely rare, whereas there are hundreds of thousands of "extra" embryos from IVF every year). The people trying to conceive via IVF that for whatever reason cannot dont want to adopt someone elses embryo, THATS WHY THEY ARE TRYING IVF - THERE ARE PLENTY OF LIVING BREATHING KIDS TO ADOPT ALSO - THEY WANT THEIR *OWN*.
And even if you oppose abortion (as some of the Senators sponsoring the stem cell research bill do) you are not making a contradiction if you support stem cell research. Its not the same damn thing. Senator Brownback of Kansas (insert your own evolution joke here, at the expense of Kansas please) says - "we simply should not go down the road of using taxpayer dollars to kill young humans." Therein lies the bullshit, the extreme effort to make an issue when one simply does not exist. They are NOT little humans, they are human embryos. Not only that but they are human embryos in the "to be thrown out" pile.
Its amoral and unethical and very cruel to NOT support stem cell research. It could help millions of people and their is no ethical dilemma in using the to be discarded embryos for said research.
"Steaming" indeed:Slate's Human Nature: 'Snowflakes' and Stem Cells
Comments
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
OK, I know back in the elections it seemed I was a huge supporter of Bushes, but keep in mind I was more of a hater of Kerry. Also, I am definitely a supporter of stem cell research, and definitely anti-theocracy. Anyways, with that said, there are a couple of flaws with your arguments and I just want to try to keep everything honest.
1. The current process for overriding a filibuster is contrary to the Constitution, no matter who is doing it. The Constitution is very specific on what it requires a supramajority for, and ending a filibuster is not one of them. Secondly, I saw some statistics the other day - Dems have blocked almost 47% of Bush's nominations. The next closest was around 22% blocks for JFK's nominations. Also, a filibuster IMHO is completely contrary to democracy. A filibuster allows the will of a minority to override the will of a majority using a procedural rule. Plain and simple. But, with that said-
2. A Presidential veto is NOT a minority override as you were equating. The fact is that the President was popularly elected by the majority of the population and so therefore has the power to act on behalf of that majority. Granted, I highly doubt that the majority of folks who elected him support the stem cell veto, but that is how the system works. This is the checks and balances put in place by the Constitution.
3. I do hope that the senate and house override Bush's god-inspired veto as is permitted within the Constitution. Would serve him right. Again, checks and balances.
4. Finally, and this will probably get me in trouble, I think the President is only banning federal funding of this type of stem cell research, correct? If I'm wrong, I apologize. But if this is correct, then it should be vetoed along with a whole bunch of other things. Not because of godly morals and such, but because THIS AIN'T THE JOB OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! No where in the Constitution does it say feds can take tax money and funnel it into research which may or may not get anything. The same for almost every other program, save for the few defined in the constitution - (defense, interstate commerce regulation, federal law enforcement, etc.). But that is just the smaller government is better government in me.
Oh, and yes, I do agree that their killing young humans argument is total and utter bullshit.
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
Ummm... I think you have have number confused... I think that is 47 nominations, not 47%. About 36 district judges, 7 appellate and a smattering of deputy posts. That doesn't even compare to the use of fillibuster and anonymous holds placed on Clinton nominees.
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
break down of judicial appointments, Truman - GWB
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
Nope, not confused. If I can find the source, I'll put it in.
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
OK. Well, I found the list, but unfortunately the source isn't cited. But hey, if it is on the internet, it must be true, right?
The following list shows the percentages of presidential appellate court nominees who were eventually confirmed by the Senate:
Harry Truman 100%
Dwight Eisenhower 92.3%
John Kennedy 77.3%
Lyndon Johnson 96.2%
Richard Nixon 87%
Gerald Ford 81.8%
Jimmy Carter 100%
Ronald Reagan 95%
G.H.W. Bush 95.7%
Bill Clinton 86.4%
George Bush 53.1%
Now that I re-read this, I don't think that statistics are quite up to what it was hoping to show, or at least there is a lot of room for interpretation. Anyways, I'll concede this one but stand on my others until I can be shown otherwise.
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
Oh, and like I said, I don't think ANYONE should be able to use a filibuster to block these things. Seems an abuse of procedural rules to me.
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
I disagree sir Heimann. The entire nature of the Senate is that the minority gets a voice. The two from every state, not just mob rules, so on.
The filibuster is important to that end and historically its been used just as much by each party (while I think the filibuster is essential and you do not - my point was the silliness of saying you are against one minute and then for it the next).
And as to the veto being a minority override, that was not my assertion, it came from linked NPR audio, but I do agree with it. Thats exactly what it is, the entire Congress says - here is the law - the President is then in the miniorty and say nope its out (and for the record I agree with the power of veto and think it is also important).
As to the voting records I get completely different numbers that you when I search:
These fun statistics are from the American Enterprise Institute. :
Judicial Nominations
Percent of nominees confirmed
Carter: 93.1%
Reagan: 96.1%
Bush I: 78.1%
Clinton: 87.9%
Bush II: 96.6%
Now I have no idea if these numbers are a reality either. DalyTHoughts seems to have the most info on it and they assert that there has been obstructionism yet by their own notes there is an overall trend and several major factors that skew the GWB numbers downward (Clinton appointees that Bush recalled, DeLay keeping Congress out of session leading to a rule that automatically revoked nominees, and a host of a thousand other factors).
One of the posters on DalyThoughts has some nice updated graphs - MurdocOnline judicial nominees graphs. They also point to GWB getting the shortest stick but they dont really point to what amounts to a major statistical change when the overall trend is also considered.
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
One other thing. I whole heartedly and entirely agree with Mr Heimann on his number 4. I dont think any such research should really be the domain of the federal govt (though yeah that gets me into trouble too). That said I do agree if we are going to fund all sorts of things the govt should not fund in the first place there is absolutely not valid reason to restrict stem cell research based on theocratic bs (and if we didnt have to fund all this maybe we would have more individual money and more would get invested in or donated to the things the govt currently funds of this nature).
Props to Heimann for number 4. (And I think we are in the extreme minority when we actually prefer less government ;) maybe we need a filibuster.)
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
ugh, I have no clue what all of this crap is about.... even after reading it!
RE: "Steaming" inconsistencies with the conservative Republicans
FYI-
Harry Reid, big ol' Democrat that he is, argued back in 98 or 99 I think that he felt all judicial nominees from the Prez should get an up or down vote. Funny how he wanted that for a Democratic president.
I do understand the purpose of the filibuster as well, BUT, I think requiring a supramajority to override a filibuster goes against the Constitution.
However, I think we can all agree that all politicians are rotten, coniving, evil bastards.