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The NY Post On a Mission From... Well Someone.

Fri, 01/02/2004 - 15:08 — kebernet

Rupter's New York Post, aka Fox News for the slightly literate, is ranting about GTA:VC. Wow. Shocker. Violence in video games. Lets take a look at some of this insightful piece:

Lately, the game has been in the news quite a bit - though not for any reason Take-Two would have wanted - as leaders in the Haitian community and elsewhere have gotten noticeably torqued up about a line of dialogue that consists of the following: "Kill the Haitians."

Ok, this is a line out of context. "Kill the Haitians" means the Haitian gang your are up against, not "Kill All Haitians". Minor point, but hey, it is a violent game.

In fact, "whatever you want" is what the game is all about. Thanks to its artful and complex programming and its incredibly realistic graphics, the game creates the impression of being inside a totally unscripted, live-action drama in which you can manufacture your mayhem as you go along.

Um. Wait a second, I think I would put that line in their next magazine ad!

People, this is insane. This is 10,000 times worse than the worst thing anybody thinks Michael Jackson ever did to a little boy - or than any lie the feds think Martha Stewart ever told them, or any line in any song that Bruce Springsteen ever sang that rankled a cop in the Meadowlands.

Ok, does anyone think, that raping children and putting out a video game are even in the same ballpark? 10,000 times worse. WTF ever.

Besides: By what preposterous reasoning can one argue that once someone turns 17 years of age it magically becomes OK to glorify mass murder? Are we saying that it would have been OK for that Beltway Sniper guy - who was apparently in his 40s - to have been allowed to play "Grand Theft Auto" before going on his killing spree, but it wouldn't have been OK for that young teenager who went along with him to have done the same?

For every business man that has talked about going to the matresses, for everybody who has ever popped out "say hello to my little friend, YES, we glorify mass murder. The Godfather and Scarface, not to mention Pulp Ficiton and however many Billy the Kid movies there are, are classics of American cinema about "gangster motherf*ckers doing gangster sh*t". The glorification of violence is nothing new, and the fact that this is an "artfully programmed" game with beautiful visuals and a reasonably compelling liquid plot only underscores its quality. Its is the Scarface of video games. It is a game about a cocain dealer, of course it is morally disturbing and enticing and exciting. The fact that the author has no appreciation for this doesn't make the work any less valid.

This whole age-cutoff thing is simply garbage - just like "Grand Theft Auto" itself - and sooner or later, I would imagine, we'll come to our senses and ban these games from public commerce, just like we ban child pornography and entertainment spectacles such as cock fighting and dwarf throwing.

Ok, just want to try something here:

This whole age-cutoff thing is simply garbage - just like "The Sopranos" itself - and sooner or later, I would imagine, we'll come to our senses and ban these shows from public commerce, just like we ban child pornography and entertainment spectacles such as cock fighting and dwarf throwing.

All the stuff about the family history of Take-Two's founder I find funny coming from a News Corp subsidiary. The SEC will do what the SEC does, and if Take-Two has cooked the books, put them in the same cell with Kenny and the Texans. A misinformed rant about a game that many reguard as one of the best of recent memory, however, might actually be 10,000 times worse than raping a child.

Comments

Fri, 01/02/2004 - 15:29 — jeepmutt (not verified)

Re: The NY Post On a Mission From... Well Someone.

Just my $0.02. I've never played this game. I've heard that, technically speaking, it is an amazing engine that allows for all sorts of fun gaming freedoms.

However, I feel quite strongly against the game itself. I feel that there should not be a game that so realistically portrays the type of violence that this game portrays. Hypocritical? Possibly. I've "killed" my share of Nazis, aliens, mutants, terrorists, bandititos, and even policeman via the Matrix. However, killing cops, strangling hookers and carjacking, are to me, not tasks suitable for simulating. I personally can see how a game like this might desensitize someone not adequately prepared and help convince them that it's ok to do these things.

Now, assuming you've read this far, and not flamed away, I'll say this: this article is 100% bullshit. 10,000 times worse?!? What the fsck? I agree heartily on that little sentiment.

I've chosen to show my displeasure in this little 'game' by doing what I need to do: It will never, ever be in my house. I won't play it, I won't rent it, I won't buy it. In 10 years when I have to deal with such things, my kids will never have access to anything even remotely similar. (at least via me or my money.)

To me, it is a damned shame that others think that this game is fun, but this article is the type of horseshit that isn't going to help a single bit.

Fri, 01/02/2004 - 15:40 — cooper (not verified)

Re: The NY Post On a Mission From... Well Someone.

There was a word that stood out to me in your post: simulated. I'm not sure that I see this as a "Cocaine Dealer Simulation," like say, FlightGear is a flight simulator. It's a story that you explore, and yes it is free form.

There is tons of stuff in this game that certainly on its face sounds bad, but it reminds me of a Roger Ebert column from a while back: "If you understand why Kill Bill is a great movie, and The [New] Texas Chainsaw Massacre isn't, if you understand why Bad Santa is a great movie and The Cat in the Hat isn't, then you have taste in movies." Having stuff that is disturbing isn't necessarily bad. I have played many of the same games you have, but I have played AS a Nazi, which isn't to say I condone genocide. I have played as the aliens wiping out humanity. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of TERRIBLE games out there just a violent as GTA. The reason GTA is a big deal though, is because it actually IS a compelling game. Carjacking and drug dealing and all.

Fri, 01/02/2004 - 15:49 — cooper (not verified)

Re: The NY Post On a Mission From... Well Someone.

Just wanted to post this too... This is the description for Dope Wars, an 1985 game from Moby:

Dope Wars, the politically incorrect but hugely popular drug dealing game from Beermat Software, is the underground's answer to minesweeper � quick to install, easy to play, and tailor-made for workday lulls and quick breaks.

This low tech but high fun game casts you as a debt ridden drug dealer - $2000 in your pocket, but $5500 in debt to a Loan Shark. The only way to get out of this debt trap is to make money by buying the available drugs and then moving to a new location and hoping the price moves up, or is driven up by market demands. Along the way, you'll encounter various hazzards in your filthy trade such as cops, muggers, loan sharks needing repaying, etc.

Fri, 01/02/2004 - 16:33 — jeepmutt (not verified)

Re: The NY Post On a Mission From... Well Someone.

See, I don't play as Nazis and I never could manage to play the darkside in kotor. That's just me.

See, for me, a major difference is the involvement. Watching a movie is very non-interactive. If you wanna sit there and watch a movie based on GTA, then that'd be one thing. However, I see being involved in the action as completely different.

No, I wouldn't call GTA a simulation in the realm of a FlightSim product, but it's not a board game, either. It completely trivializes some pretty serious ****, and to me it is worse than trivializing something like warfare, 'cause warfare is obviously taken out of context. It's not something that you go outside on any city street and see. I think that this is my biggest point, so I'm going to pontificate a bit:

To me there is a difference between 'cartoon violence' and 'realistic violence'. That line of demarcation is pretty important, I think.

An example: Jerry slapping Tom with a big ole mallet. Crackdealer taking a claw hammer to a hooker. Same actions, different context. Different set of expectations of both reality and reaction.

Let's take this to an extreme... Would it be ok to have a 3D virtual reality version of this game? (call it GTA-9) 100% complete immersion. Your senses can't tell the difference between the game and reality. You fire up the game and you 'feel' the throat that you are strangling. You see the cop's brains splat out onto the sidewalk.

Take the same game, except this time it's Halo-12 (MS is always a bit behind) You suit up as Sarge and take on the convenant. You feel the mutant's throat as you squeeze it. You see the little alien's brain matter splatter on the space fortress floor.

A completely different context. A different set of expectations and, in the end, in my mind, a much less threatening situation.

I ask you this: would GTA be as compelling if you were to take the exact same engine and plot lines and place it in an alien city with aliens and not humans? Maybe it would, but as you say, it wouldn't be getting the attention, and therefore the 8 yr olds out there wouldn't be dying to get their hands on it and "journalists" wouldn't be pretending that it is even comporable to real-life child molestation, etc.

Anyway, point is, is this: you can't make me like the game or even see any valid points about its entertainment value. I don't want to make you agree with my point of view, (Respect it? yes. Agree? not counting on it. Understand it? hopefully... and if you want to understand what I claim to be valid points, great, we'll get together and play a round of a mutally agreeable violent game and discuss until we're all fragged out.)

My whole feeling is that A) I wouldn't be caught dead playing or owning this game. B) That's my choice and I know that my choice isn't going to keep it off the shelves. C) I know that it's my job to police myself and my family and if it's on the shelves, that's OK. It being America and all.

Sat, 01/03/2004 - 12:56 — atrox (not verified)

Re: The NY Post On a Mission From... Well Someone.

I have to agree with mutt on this one. And Agree with coop.

What I mean is I dont for one second think that its GAMES that are corrupting kids, but I do see how a kid without any parents to speak of that is susceptible might be de-sensitized by such a game. That is the FAULT OF THE PARENTS though and not the game, its NOT A KIDS GAME. Its meant for adults that can handle the context and want to play the fantasy.

Personally I dont ever play the nazis or eant to carjack cars, be a drug dealer or kill cops either. Its just not me. I dont like the idea of the game so I wont ever buy it or play it. (Hypocritical, maybe but I think there is a distinction between liking SOCOM and killing terrorists and strangling cops?)

Again though, it sounds like a great game and all the crap about the GAME BEING TO BLAME for peoples actions is horseshit. Accountability goes to the person, the family, the parents, not to movies, books, internet, games, catholic priests, or whatever the ****.

And for the record, want some violence in entertainment, watch Wiley Coyote and the Road Runner. Somehow I have never dropped an anvil from a cliff onto anyone, yet I was subjected to hours and hours of that **** (granted its different, but you get the idea, right and wrong, real and fantasy, have to be taught by parents).

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